Trooper Armor?

Krash · Jedi Knight Joined: Mar 20, 2004 Posts: 3495

I decided to kick back and watch Return of the Jedi - Special Edition tonight, and something interesting happened.

During the scene where Leia gets shot, and blasts the 2 troopers, my dad sits down (after work) and watches the movie with me for a while. Something didn't seem right to him, and he asks:
What good is all that armor? They might as well be naked

Now, I'm sure someone from Ohio Garrison could answer this better, but it was one of those moments where someone who is not a fan (although my dad is pretty good at SW Trival Pursuit) comes up with a very good point. Why bother with the armor, if one laser blast kills them?

Beltayn · Jedi Knight Joined: Apr 18, 2004 Posts: 1712

It's in the script Rolling Eyes

I wouldn't say I'm any sort of expert on armor, but I know a few things.

Through the ages, armor was designed and built to ward off damage from hand weapons. The better armored a soldier was, the better chance he had to walk away from a battle. Weapon designers found ways to get past those defenses, building more effective hand & missle weapons to penetrate an armored soldier. With the invention of firearms, armor became a thing that did little but weigh a soldier down and did little or nothing to stop a high-velocity piece of lead.

Most body armor through the 20th century was designed to stop shrapnel (artillery caused quite a few casualties). Kevlar vests (the ones we wore back in the 80's & mid-90's) gave us a bit more protection, but even a direct hit from a rifle round would cut through it. Even the ballistic plates we used wouldn't stop a direct hit from a 7.62 AP round.

Armor isn't foolproof against damage. Even todays modern body armor worn by soldier and law enforcement can't stop everything. But still, it gives them a second chance they may not have had.

The 'trooper armor was probably designed to take on glancing shots, or maybe a low-powered direct hit, but might not be able to absorb a heavy blaster shot in the chest plate.

But then again, GL probably didn't want to 'run-of-the-mill' stormtroopers being tough to kill Confused

Krash · Jedi Knight Joined: Mar 20, 2004 Posts: 3495

I'm sure alot of it has to do with the psychological aspect of warfare...Imperial Stormtroopers LOOK intimidating, before you ever confront them.

Since the origins of the Stormtroopers was from clones (how much is still part of the OT era...remains to be seen) it may have served as a way of perserving the anoniminity of the troopers. You never know what kind of person is behind the mask/helmet. Compare a group of stormtroopers, with the same number of Death Star Troopers or Imperial officers and the image of an single collective army is lost.

That and it was easy to hide the numbers of actors vs cardboard background stand-in props...into the script Idea

Beltayn · Jedi Knight Joined: Apr 18, 2004 Posts: 1712

Krash wrote:

I'm sure alot of it has to do with the psychological aspect of warfare...Imperial Stormtroopers LOOK intimidating, before you ever confront them.

Since the origins of the Stormtroopers was from clones (how much is still part of the OT era...remains to be seen) it may have served as a way of perserving the anoniminity of the troopers. You never know what kind of person is behind the mask/helmet.

True, but from a 'reality' perspective- these guys wore armor for protection (not that it did them much good in the movie Confused

). I remember doing riot-control training in the army and as a corrections officer- the helmets, visors, vests, knee/shin guards, riot clubs, ect- not only gave the appearence that we were going to finish what was started, but gave us a decent amount of protection and some offensive capability. The intimidation factor was a combination of appearence and our actions- we always advanced, never retreated. We moved as a unit; everything we did was a precise and deliberate movement. The stormtroopers have the 'fear factor' in their favor- a reputation for no-nonsence and brutal tactics. When they assaulted a ship or an objective, they came in dishing out the maximum amount of violence they could.

gbonkers · Jedi Knight Joined: Jun 03, 2004 Posts: 78

Unless they were wearing lead blocks on themselves, stormtrooper armor wouldn't be that effective. As someone once said, most armor will not stop everything. What it protects itself against is sharpnel. Furthermore, there is the intimidation factor. Then, again, the Empire believed stormtroopers to be replaceable...

Beltayn · Jedi Knight Joined: Apr 18, 2004 Posts: 1712

I decided to go back through some of these old posts... what would lead blocks have to do with stormtrooper armor?

Padme92 · Treasury Councillor Joined: Mar 27, 2004 Posts: 2123

well, maybe in ROTJ the blasters used were powerful enough to get through the armor...like in Survivor's Quest how the troopers armor is said to be able to hold the blasts because the blasters were not powerful enough to get through....

Beltayn · Jedi Knight Joined: Apr 18, 2004 Posts: 1712

Padawan92 wrote:

well, maybe in ROTJ the blasters used were powerful enough to get through the armor...like in Survivor's Quest how the troopers armor is said to be able to hold the blasts because the blasters were not powerful enough to get through....

Question is- how many years have passed between ROTJ and 'Survivors Quest'? I mean, they could have developed stronger, more resilient 'trooper armor (seeing that the Imperials nowadays probably have less troops, improving their effectiveness and survivability on the battlefield probably became a priority). Then, someone eventually comes up with a better blaster... Twisted Evil

Krash · Jedi Knight Joined: Mar 20, 2004 Posts: 3495

And the vicious cycle continues...rock beats scissors, blaster beats rock! Twisted Evil

I would think the technology of creating body armor, like the stuff used by Stormtroopers, would be limited compared to the amount of energy blaster designers can use. Gunpowder made traditional armor meaningless, because it could pierce the soldiers better then a spear or arrow. Regardless of how limited the Empire is in numbers, the body armor can only protect the so much.

Do you think the troopers of EU, having suffered the defeat of Endor, are more aware of the armor's limitations...or do they still view troopers as expendable?

Beltayn · Jedi Knight Joined: Apr 18, 2004 Posts: 1712

From the few EU comics I looked at (based off of the novels), they still wore their 'trooper armor, regardless of the seemingly limited protection it offered in the movies. I've never been a fan of post-ROTJ storylines, so any improvements on trooper armor since then are something I'm not aware of.

Like I said before, armor won't stop everything- there's no 100% guarantee that a bullet-proof vest will stop a pistol or rifle round (that bullet, even if it doesn't penetrate, can still break a rib or cause bruise damage). Anything from the caliber (some vests are only able to withstand common pistol rounds of up to a certain type, but anything more powerful will decrease the protective value) and purpose of the round (what I mean by that, is what the bullet is designed to do- armor-piercing, tracer, ball, hollow-point, etc), the angle it hits, any defects in the armor design, etc. can play a factor in whether or not you end up with a just a bruise or a new navel.

Like I said before, most modern military-grade armor is designed to protect against shrapnal and glancing hits, but most rifle rounds will punch a hole through it (even with the plate inserts)

Blaster bolts are designed to punch and burn through armor; however, not every hit will be center-mass or a head shot, and not all will be a solid hit. SW has the 'troopers being blasted left and right; you never saw them being wounded, or a shot hitting anything but a head or torso.

Even though the movies and literature like to show everyone that stormtrooper armor is worthless, ANYTHING standing between your well-being and certain death, is better then nothing. Plus, doesn't that 'trooper armor have all sorts of commo, vision enhancements and other gadgets installed?

As far as 'troopers being 'expendable', if what I read so far is true, the new 'Empire of the Hand' is a lot smaller then the former Galactic Empire. They probably don't have the manpower or resources they were used to, and the days of throwing regiments or divisions of troops against an objective and writing off mass casualties as 'acceptable losses' are probably over. I would think the Empire would work on conserving what resources it had at it's disposal and streamlining it's offensive and defensive capabilities. If anything, the new Imperial High Command would at least learn from it's past failures and work on ensuring they weren't on the losing side of future conflicts. That includes everything from building better equipment, changing tactics and improving even the basic trooper.

Coyote · Jedi Knight Joined: Aug 15, 2004 Posts: 416

Another thing about the armor is the helmet. Its supposed to have all sorts of little gadgets to help out the Stormtroopers. Air purifier, com system ect.

Krash · Jedi Knight Joined: Mar 20, 2004 Posts: 3495

I've read that the costume design of stormtroopers and Darth Vader was that it was to be in sealed armor. In theory they could travel from ship to ship.

THe one thing I liked about the stormtrooper helmets, was their intercms were supposed to have some kind of security device to them, take off the helmet...without the right code and the headset is worthless. WOuld have made Luke and Han's job easier...

Trooper: {{TK426, try and head them of at the secondary detention block entrance}}
Luke: Han, I think they're trying to use in the back door!

Beltayn · Jedi Knight Joined: Apr 18, 2004 Posts: 1712

Krash wrote:

I've read that the costume design of stormtroopers and Darth Vader was that it was to be in sealed armor. In theory they could travel from ship to ship.

I'm pretty sure they could survive a short time in a hazardous environment (limited air supply and all), but I don't know about hard vacuum... then again, we didn't see too many stormtroopers doing a space walk Wink

If I don't want anyone using my com system, I'll just disconnect the power source Razz