FORUM LOCKED.

jedi_bmack · Communication Councillor Joined: Feb 08, 2004 Posts: 1248

due to several posts and a controversy that has sprung up due to those posts, the "Movies, movies and more movies" has been locked until the Council and Moderators can come to a resolution on some policy changes/updates.

i apologize for the inconveniece.

-b-

skyedancer · Jedi Knight Joined: Apr 19, 2004 Posts: 314

ERRR!!!

Why can't people play nice so this doesn't happen? I didn't read those controversial ones but I know sometimes things have to be locked. But there are so many good movies being released soon. Sad

Krash · Jedi Knight Joined: Mar 20, 2004 Posts: 3495

skyedancer wrote:

I didn't read those controversial ones but I know sometimes things have to be locked. But there are so many good movies being released soon. Sad

Yeah, there's been alot of that going around (which has been the problem). Hopefully, we all can help B, the web team, and Padme92 get the movie boards back up and running so we can get back to encouraging people to enjoy all these good movies with their fellow JKOC friends.

JediKnightPasJoDacle · Jedi Knight Joined: Mar 31, 2004 Posts: 1223

anavrin0901 · Jedi Knight Joined: Dec 23, 2004 Posts: 795

skyedancer wrote:

ERRR!!!

Why can't people play nice so this doesn't happen? I didn't read those controversial ones but I know sometimes things have to be locked. But there are so many good movies being released soon. Sad

Just to clarify for you...there was nothing at all that was posted controversial...just a simple disagreement among board members as to what movies can and cannot be talked about do to time restrictions and/or undocumented rumors surrounding the filming of movies. Yes... hopefully this will be fixed soon.

TheRandomMenace · Jedi Knight Joined: Mar 30, 2004 Posts: 1886

I'd have to agree with Anavrin on this one... I didn't see any controversy at all (then again I have been so busy with work and coaching that I have just casually perused the boards lately) merely guidelines to be followed that some board members disagreed with and (I'm under the impression that they) addressed in an orderly manner via PM to Anavrin, who they knew would speak up on their behalf.

jedi_bmack · Communication Councillor Joined: Feb 08, 2004 Posts: 1248

for the record:

Quote:

controversy. (n.d.). 1. A dispute, especially a public one, between sides holding opposing views.

The American Heritage® Dictionary of the English Language, Fourth Edition. Retrieved October 09, 2006, from Dictionary.com website: dictionary.reference.c...ontroversy

there are multiple sides here publicly holding opposing viewpoints here. i was only making proper use of a word in the english language. i was not trying to imply negativity here. apparently i failed. bickering over one word will not make this issue get resolved any faster... nor will it allow the collective moderators to make their decision faster or subjectively.

that being said, there has been quite a repsonse in the moderator's forum regarding this issue and how to get it resolved, but even with that, i am trying to keep a public thread open so our non-moderators have some input. however, if no constructive suggestions are going to be offered by members to assist in coming to a constructive resolution, i will lock this one as well.

-b-

Jedi_Minch · Youngling Joined: Aug 11, 2006 Posts: 158

jedi_bmack wrote:

however, if no constructive suggestions are going to be offered by members to assist in coming to a constructive resolution, i will lock this one as well.

-b-

That hardly seems likely to encourage constructive participation.

Nevertheless, a modest suggestion. Simply restore the status quo ante with regard to that forum. At least for the duration of the highlevel powwow? (And, by all means, take your time working it out among yourselves. Wink

)

Why punish everyone when only a few of us are directly involved?

Jedi Minch

jedi_bmack · Communication Councillor Joined: Feb 08, 2004 Posts: 1248

at the moment the locking of the forum is giving the administration, myself included, the motivation to get the problem solved. if it hasn't been resolved by end of day Thursday, i'll reinstate the board under the old guidleines. but i do anticipate a resolution prior to that point... i don't want to have a board locked, period. but since it was locked based on the lack of response and public outcry, i stand by it until the issue is resolved...

-b-

skyedancer · Jedi Knight Joined: Apr 19, 2004 Posts: 314

I guess my problem is that because of time constraints and little time to be on the computer I am not even aware of what this whole issue involves. Embarassed

So without understanding exactly what is going one, I should have not posted at all. Rolling Eyes

What exactly is the nature of the issue being discussed by the Mods? I certainly did not mean to criticize you, B, or any other member of this club. OK? Question

jedi_bmack · Communication Councillor Joined: Feb 08, 2004 Posts: 1248

i'll make this as basic as possible, as always trying to not attack anyone involved.

Em made a change in the guidelines to the forum that would have curtailed speculative threads on movies very far out in advance. she did this in an effort to return the forum to what that which the more tenured members were familiar. the movies thread had been traditionally used for planning trips out to movies and discussing them after their release.

while i cannot and will not say that her goal was out of line, i don't think the method was exactly the best. she made a declaration of the updated guidelines and locked two threads that were in opposition to them. it happens that the two locked threads were two of the more popular threads being currently frequented by a small and vocal, yet well-spoken minority. they asked why those types of speech were being "banned." that in itself is rather strong language, as they are in fact just guidelines and were not "banning" anything.

as the moderator of the forum, Em had every right to try and set guidelines to keep more threads on topic, and i will support any other Moderators who would like to take the same tack. now, as expressed by said minority, we had not tried to curtail that type of discussion in the past. why are we trying to do it now?

fundamentally, this is a good point to make. i support their view here. i strongly believe we cannot disallow non-offesive speech that we had not previously disallowed.

again however, the method becomes the point of contention. responses to the new guidelines were seen as attacking the Moderator. does that mean that's how they were intended? no, it doesn't. but it's the impression it left on the Moderators and Administrators. due to that perception and the lack of constructive suggestions being offered by most people voicing opinions, the forum was locked until the issue is resolved.

it is my personal opinion that everyone here was right in their ideas and concepts. however, they were all just as wrong in their methods. The Moderators and Administrators are working to get this resolved. Constructive suggestions are appreciated and will be taken into account during this process.

-b-

skyedancer · Jedi Knight Joined: Apr 19, 2004 Posts: 314

Thanks for that explanation, B. It looks like these issues need to be resolved: What is the purpose of the movies discussion section? Is it to discuss current movies? Or forthcoming movies? Or both? If forthcoming ones also, then how far in advance of a movie's release can club members start posting? The locking of sections is a whole other issue that I'm not going to comment on.

jedi_bmack · Communication Councillor Joined: Feb 08, 2004 Posts: 1248

y'see, those are the questions that we are trying to answer...

we have a traditional type of threads here: those that organize group trips to and then discuss those movies after viewing. now we have a larger volume of speculative threads, which are not unimportant or out-of-line, they are merely outside the established tradition.

like i said above, i don't think there should be a restriction on the speculation, just a bit of structure to keep the speculation and the planning-post-viewing discussion separate. there are some system options we could look at, but more likely we'll have a stop gap solution that should keep everyone happy until the forum modifications can be developed.

keep 'em coming. we're getting closer.

-b-

TheRandomMenace · Jedi Knight Joined: Mar 30, 2004 Posts: 1886

jedi_bmack wrote:

while i cannot and will not say that her goal was out of line, i don't think the method was exactly the best. she made a declaration of the updated guidelines and locked two threads that were in opposition to them. it happens that the two locked threads were two of the more popular threads being currently frequented by a small and vocal, yet well-spoken minority. they asked why those types of speech were being "banned." that in itself is rather strong language, as they are in fact just guidelines and were not "banning" anything.

I guess this situation begs the question for future scenarios... should Mods have the ability to make such declarations of their own updated guidelines in their forums without consulting/running them by the Council in advance?

This is hyperbole (exagerration) to prove a point, but say B as the current Empire Strikes Back Mod is partial towards the Empire Strikes Back over the other 5 SW movies, and in his own personal interest comes up with a guideline that no discussions will be tolerated in his forum that do not give ESB praise/say it is better than the other 5 movies. Should that be permissible? I don't think so.

Just trying to think of as many angles on this issue as possible so that all the bases can be covered.

jedi_bmack · Communication Councillor Joined: Feb 08, 2004 Posts: 1248

TheRandomMenace wrote:

I guess this situation begs the question for future scenarios... should Mods have the ability to make such declarations of their own updated guidelines in their forums without consulting/running them by the Council in advance?

first, just to make sure everyone is aware, it is not just the Council making these decisions, but the Council and a group of about 10 tenured members of JKOC who have been selected by the Council as Moderators. and no, we don't always agree. Wink

this question is one of the issues that has come up among the Moderators and Administrators while the discussion has been going on.

at this point, i cannot make a full estimation of the general consensus of Mods and Admins. but this Admin's personal opinion right now is: no.

i think that large, sweeping changes in guidelines should be run through the Mods and Admins. in this case, would it have had such a large response had we looked at it and try to forsee more of these problems? i have no good answer for that. there will always be issues that we may not see and i have no way of knowing whether we would have seen this issue.

regarding the day to day operation and moderation of posts, i would say that the Mods have the ability to go about that business with no outside consultation.

again, this is only my opinion as it stands right now. the actual policy may come out different.

-b-