Did Wedge call off sick?

tml1138 · Jedi Knight Joined: Jan 17, 2005 Posts: 409

Maybe his ship was so badly damaged that it would have been senseless suicide to stay there. Maybe his X-Wing was losing power fast (at the full throttle speed they were going) and would have fallen back in the trench only to either use up all power to keep up and thereby crashing, or easily picked off by the chasing Tie Fighters.

I suppose he could have tried some fancy and more heroic manuever like getting in the way of a Tie and colliding with it, but if his ship is losing power (or something to that effect) the Tie would have most likely fired on him well before he could have gotten in range for a collision.

My take on it.

DonC · Senior Councillor Joined: Mar 30, 2004 Posts: 950

Krash wrote:

Here's my look at it: Wedge would be the kinda guy to follow orders, so when Luke tells him to get clear (because of his ship's damage) he would.

Wedge had to have outranked Luke. Luke was in the Rebellion for all of ten minutes; Wedge had been there a while.

I know it "doesn't count," but the only reason Wedge left was so Han could return at the last second and help Luke. Why Lucas didn't kill Wedge is beyond me. It wasn't until the EU took off that people really started to notice him.

The only other explaination I can think of is retreat to fight again some other day. He knew he was going to be useless so he took off so he could fight in the next battle.

Coyote · Jedi Knight Joined: Aug 15, 2004 Posts: 416

jedimasterElek wrote:

sorry guys im depressed lately i dint mean anything by it sorry

Its no problem dude. I just wanna keep the conversation going. Wink

jedi_bmack · Communication Councillor Joined: Feb 08, 2004 Posts: 1248

regarding the issue of rank as it stands in Red Squadron ANH:

from real life and EU:
Luke is Red Five, Wedge is Red Two. military squadrons are generally 12 pilots, comprised of 3 flights, each flight with 2 wing pairs.

flights are generally 4 conescutive numbers, 1 through 4, 5 through 8 and 9 through 12. flight leaders would be the most experienced pilots, therefore your best pilots in a squadron should be numbers 1, 5 and 9. 1, or Lead, would be the Squadron Leader, usually a Commander or equivalent, 5 and 9 would both be a Captain or equivalent.

now, wing pairs are generally consecutive numbers, e.g Red 1 and 2, Red 3 and 4, etc... most squadrons would try to pair experienced pilots with in experienced pilots in decending order, Red 1 would be better than 2, Red 3 better than 4, etc. and Lead would generally fly with the least experienced pilot. that way One Flight has the best and worst wing pair, Two Flight is the 2nd and 4th best wing pairs, and Three Flight is the 3rd and 4th best wing pairs.

your pilot rankings by wing lead would generally be the following: 1, 5, 9, 11, 7, 3. after that, Red 2 would be the least experienced, then Reds 6, 10, 12, 8, and 4. ranks are generally reflected by Squadron assignment.

given the above at the time of ANH, Luke was the second best pilot in the Squadron, Wedge was the worst and Biggs was sixth best.

anyways, that about sums up the EU explanation. which i know won't satisfy Jim, since it's not in the movie. so..............

from the script:
Luke is given an order from Red Lead to take Reds Two and Three (Wedge and Hobbie) and begin the attack run. this essentially puts Luke in charge of the wing trio, hence he outranks both Wedge and Biggs and they have to follow orders. Luke ordered him out, Wedge has to go out...

*shrug*

-b-

Coyote · Jedi Knight Joined: Aug 15, 2004 Posts: 416

I understand the reasoning behind the fighter squadron flight system. However it just doesn't work here. Wedge is more experianced, unless he was a complete newb as Luke was. Luke was clearly one of if not the most in-experianced pilots in Red Squadron. If anything Biggs should have been the flight leader as he had graduated from the Imperial Acadamy. In fact it coulda worked that way had GL done it. Biggs has the lead with Luke and wedge covering him. He gets shot down by Vader and Luke has to save the day. (After Han and Chewie saves his sorry butt.)

TheRandomMenace · Jedi Knight Joined: Mar 30, 2004 Posts: 1886

Well, Leia could pull rank and knowing of Obi-Wan's background and Luke's abilities, could have requested Luke be placed as the 2nd best gun in his squadron... despite the fact that Wedge and Biggs had more experience within the Rebellion. And if it wasn't common knowledge within the galaxy that Anakin was Vader, the Skywalker name would still carry some weight with regard to piloting abilities.

But yes, it was to my understanding that Luke was supposed to be younger than Wedge at the time of the Battle of Yavin.

Krash · Jedi Knight Joined: Mar 20, 2004 Posts: 3495

Quote:

Luke is given an order from Red Lead to take Reds Two and Three (Wedge and Hobbie) and begin the attack run. this essentially puts Luke in charge of the wing trio, hence he outranks both Wedge and Biggs and they have to follow orders. Luke ordered him out, Wedge has to go out...

That's my thinking as well. Red Leader knew of Luke's reputation as a pilot (keep reading) and placed two more experienced pilots under his command to improve their odds of success.

Before they launch, Biggs gives Red Leader his assurance that Luke is capable of getting the job done.

"Sir, Luke is the best bushpilot in the outer rim territories"

There's part of a line that got cut, but is still in the Premiere Collector's Edition of the ANH script. I'll BOLD the part that stayed and you'll see why I think Red Leader would entrust the newbie with such an important task.

"I met your father once when I was just a boy. You'll do alright. If you've got half of your father's skill, you'll do better then alright."

Quote:

However it just doesn't work here. Wedge is more experianced

It seems Luke's family reputation and Biggs' endorsement was enough to convince him that Luke could handle the job. And to be sure, he placed two more experienced pilots (including Wedge) with Luke to protect him. While the extended dialogue got cut, GL must have gone with the idea of Red Leader knowing about Luke's ability as a pilot and that's how he got placed in the lead of the attack group.

NOW...back to Wedge.

Quote:

Why Lucas didn't kill Wedge is beyond me. It wasn't until the EU took off that people really started to notice him.

I don't think so, because many people recognized Wedge as the guy who took down the 1st AT-AT and that he was the new leader on the attack in ROTJ. I think His popularity in EU took off because he was the only regular (non jedi) pilot to be seen in the entire saga.

Quote:

I suppose he could have tried some fancy and more heroic manuever like getting in the way of a Tie and colliding with it, but if his ship is losing power (or something to that effect) the Tie would have most likely fired on him well before he could have gotten in range for a collision.

Coyote and I discussed the possibility of the "break check" tactic, and I agree that either the TIEs would have blasted him out of the way, or they would have simply gunned it and manuvered around him , leaving him in the dust.

Keeping with the car theme: BMack is chasing us (since he drives REALLY fast)...I'm barely staying ahead of him, Troy's right side tires go out. Troy can slam on the breaks, but if B doesn't blast him with the laser he installed on his car, and instead change lanes and let Troy fall behind. Troy ain't never gonna catch us and now he's useless.

jedi_bmack · Communication Councillor Joined: Feb 08, 2004 Posts: 1248

i told you to HUSH UP about the laser!!!!

Angry Mob!

*waves hand* nobody suspect the nissan...

-b-

jedimasterElek · Youngling Joined: Feb 06, 2006 Posts: 133

ok, is it possible that wedge still being ther would have made luke worry about him and not let him do his job

Coyote · Jedi Knight Joined: Aug 15, 2004 Posts: 416

jedimasterElek wrote:

ok, is it possible that wedge still being ther would have made luke worry about him and not let him do his job

Luke had one thing on his mind, putting those torpedoes on target.

Coyote · Jedi Knight Joined: Aug 15, 2004 Posts: 416

The easiest way for Wedge to help even if he had to get out of the trench is a manuevere called a "pop and drop" in fighter pilot lingo. What he should have done was slow down and pop up, let the Ties slide under him, then drop in behind them and take a shot at them. Would he have shot any down, maybe, maybe not, but he sure as heck would have distracted them somewhat.
Yet he did nothing, he ran.

Krash · Jedi Knight Joined: Mar 20, 2004 Posts: 3495

Coyote wrote:

The easiest way for Wedge to help even if he had to get out of the trench is a manuevere called a "pop and drop" in fighter pilot lingo. What he should have done was slow down and pop up, let the Ties slide under him, then drop in behind them and take a shot at them.

That'd be great IF Wedge had total control of his starfighter, which I doubt. It's one thing to try and nurse the ship away from the DS and make a retreat back to base (or run like Vader did)...but I think the narrow space in the DS trench was too much for the damaged ship to handle.

Coyote · Jedi Knight Joined: Aug 15, 2004 Posts: 416

Krash wrote:

Coyote wrote:

The easiest way for Wedge to help even if he had to get out of the trench is a manuevere called a "pop and drop" in fighter pilot lingo. What he should have done was slow down and pop up, let the Ties slide under him, then drop in behind them and take a shot at them.

That'd be great IF Wedge had total control of his starfighter, which I doubt. It's one thing to try and nurse the ship away from the DS and make a retreat back to base (or run like Vader did)...but I think the narrow space in the DS trench was too much for the damaged ship to handle.

Nice try, but down in flames ya go my friend. Wedge already was pulling up out of the trench. All it would have taken was to point his nose down a fire. If he had so little control of his fighter that he could not even do that, then explain to me how he could join up with Luke and the Falcon less than a minute later after Luke had fired the decisive torpedoes. Boy his R2 Unit must have worked some kinda miracle to get the ship flyable, after all,it was in *such* a sorry state thats he had to abandon his comrades. And the constriants of the Trench no apply, he would have been above the trench, diving down on the Ties.

"Run Like Vader did" Thats another topic, but I'll bite. Start the thread.

Krash · Jedi Knight Joined: Mar 20, 2004 Posts: 3495

Coyote wrote:

If he had so little control of his fighter that he could not even do that, then explain to me how he could join up with Luke and the Falcon less than a minute later after Luke had fired the decisive torpedoes.

Aside from Wedge's R5 unit (named "mynock") possibly doing some quick repairs that would have improved the starfighter's performance, I think the best way to describe Wedge's path towards Yavin 4 as "limping" back to base. Luke and Han would have easily been able to catch up with Wedge and the shot you see in the film is 4 ships (Luke, the Falcon, Wedge, and Farlander) heading back to base.

Quote:

"Run Like Vader did" ...but I'll bite. Start the thread.

It's the same as if Luke had failed, and the DS blew up Yavin 4 (something "Infinities" speculated on once) Vader was in a starfighter with a hyperdrive. There's no shame in retreating from the Yavin system once you don't have a base to go home to. Same goes for Wedge, had Luke failed to destroy the DS.

jedi_bmack · Communication Councillor Joined: Feb 08, 2004 Posts: 1248

point:
Wedge was issued Mynock at the beginning of his tenure as Rogue Squadron commander. there's no record of the astromech's name or designation during the Yavin runs.

also, he succeeded Luke as the commander of Rogue Squadron after the two of them founded it. Luke was a higher rank than him then as well.

Coyote wrote:

Wedge already was pulling up out of the trench. All it would have taken was to point his nose down a fire.

if his inertial compensator was out, the strain of trying to put the snubfighter through such a turn immediately after making a previous change of direction could have torn the ship apart. keep in mind that the x-wing's top speed in atmosphere is 1050 km/h... out of atmosphere, such as the trench run, they would have no air resistance and could be going faster. changes in direction at that speed would rip a ship to shreds if the inertial compensator goes out.

-b-