Comics Discussion - There are Spoilers!!

Beltayn · Jedi Knight Joined: Apr 18, 2004 Posts: 1712

Malo-ha wrote:

If Obi-wan keeps losing ships this fast its no wonder he doesn't like flying.

Kinda like the Admiral (Leslie Neilson) in 'Hot Shots'- shot down so many times he never learned how to land a plane Razz

Empire #26 was good. I've wondered about that myself- even after some of our own wars, there's still wreckage laying around for decades, and we're just one planet. Go anywhere in Europe and you'll still find knocked out vehicles or other debris scattered throughout old battlefields from the 1940's. There are documented cases of Japanese soldiers hiding out on islands in the South Pacific for 10-20 years after WWII ended, still following their last orders not to surrender, unaware that hostilities had ceased. The Clone Wars was a galaxy wide conflict, fought on many worlds; it'd be easy to forget about picking up your broken equipment or casualties, especially in the aftermath of a battle- he who owns the field inherits everything left, including the deceased.

After Gettysburg, the Union soldiers and locals spent weeks (even months) locating and burying the dead; the Union casualties were buried in marked graves (most of the time), while the Confederates were often interned in shallow graves where they fell, and little documentation was provided as to their identities (including headboards). In the following years when the National Cemetary was established, most of the Union soldiers were disinterned from their scattered grave sites and reinterned there (those that weren't picked up and transported home by relatives before that). It wasn't until the 1870's that the majority of the Rebel dead were returned home; most were unidentified by name (usually by state), and there are quite a few that were never recovered and are still buried out there today (including some Union soldiers as well, misidentified casualties buried under different names, etc).

On a side note- while I was in Gettysburg, I noticed several artifacts and other documentation with "Grand Army of the Republic" printed on it. I finished reading 'Cestus Deception', and kept seeing references to the GAR- Grand Army of the Republic.

I can see the Republic writing off clone troopers who didn't report back from missions or battles as casaulties, and wouldn't waste the time or resources to mount a search and rescue operation for a couple of guys when they were concerned with losing star systems.

DonC · Senior Councillor Joined: Mar 30, 2004 Posts: 950

Empire #26 was one of those stories you read and wonder, "Why didn't I think of that?" I don't know where Marz is going with this, but I'm damn sure going to find out. Artistically, I hope Adriana Melo is the artist for the rest of the story. I didn't care for the pages Nicola Scott drew.

And why the hell can't Empire get a regular artist? Or regular group of rotating artists? Republic is usually Jan Duuresema. It gets frustrating to see characters looking differently every 4 issues.

Republic is setting the stage for the Obi-Wan vs. Ventress miniseries nicely. So nicely, in fact, I wish she was appearing in Revenge of the Sith, but alas....

Like Mary said, the scenes with Obi-Wan and Quin in #70 were great. I haven't read "The Stark Hyperspace War" but seeing the two of them together makes me want to.

I'm glad they're resolving Quin's story now, before setting up for the new movie. I just hope he's still around when the movie comes out.

Krash · Jedi Knight Joined: Mar 20, 2004 Posts: 3495

DonC wrote:

Republic is setting the stage for the Obi-Wan vs. Ventress miniseries nicely. So nicely, in fact, I wish she was appearing in Revenge of the Sith, but alas....

They are building up this rivalry between Obi-Wan and Assaj, I'm still a little fuzzy on when exactly they first meet? Was it the on the Naboo moon...how does this fit in with the CLONE WARS cartoon miniseries? DOes this mean that when she and Anakin fight on Yavin 4...she survived that fall? Every tiem they have these 2 square off, I expect to hear/red that scene from "Spaceballs"

"So Lonestar, at last we meet again for the first time..." Confused

Malo-ha · Recruiting Councillor Joined: Mar 27, 2004 Posts: 786

Finally had time to read Empire #26. I enjoyed it very much. I was looking forward to it since I read the description and it did not disappoint. I'm also glad they decided to make it more than one issue.

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Empire #26 was something I'd been waiting for the EU folks to come up with...introducing Clone Wars era wreckage into post-ANH storylines.

I've been waiting for this too. I can't wait to see what thay are doing in #29 when Luke goes to Jabiim.

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I've wondered about that myself- even after some of our own wars, there's still wreckage laying around for decades, and we're just one planet

There are still artifacts and graves being discovered in Gettysburg as they build up the surrounding areas. And of course battlefield scavenging is still a popular pastime even though you're not suppose to keep anything you find.

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On a side note- while I was in Gettysburg, I noticed several artifacts and other documentation with "Grand Army of the Republic" printed on it.

I noticed that this summer too! At first it made me laugh but then it made me sad. All their visions of a "Grand Army" ending in the mud and blood of the battlefield very far away from the ones with romantic pictures of spotlessly clean troops marching off to victory.

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They are building up this rivalry between Obi-Wan and Assaj, I'm still a little fuzzy on when exactly they first meet? Was it the on the Naboo moon...how does this fit in with the CLONE WARS cartoon miniseries?

The rest of us are too. If Yavin took place first then Anakin would of recognized her at Naboo or vice versa. But then there wasn't much dialog in the cartoon. I try and not think of it closely. It gives us continuity nuts a headache. I just hope whatever happens in Obsession is not negated by round two of the Clone Wars Comics.

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So Lonestar, at last we meet again for the first time..."

DonC · Senior Councillor Joined: Mar 30, 2004 Posts: 950

Malo-ha wrote:

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They are building up this rivalry between Obi-Wan and Assaj, I'm still a little fuzzy on when exactly they first meet? Was it the on the Naboo moon...how does this fit in with the CLONE WARS cartoon miniseries?

The rest of us are too. If Yavin took place first then Anakin would of recognized her at Naboo or vice versa. But then there wasn't much dialog in the cartoon. I try and not think of it closely. It gives us continuity nuts a headache. I just hope whatever happens in Obsession is not negated by round two of the Clone Wars Comics.

All the Clone Wars stuff is supposed to be carefully planned out, so I'm sure Anakin vs. Ventress on Yavin 4 fits in there somewhere.

On a seperate note, Clone Wars Adventures Vol. 2 is out. This is the book that features the Free Comic Day book. It also has an Anakin and Obi-Wan story (as told to Luke by Obi-Wan) and a Mace Windu story. Haven't read it yet.

Beltayn · Jedi Knight Joined: Apr 18, 2004 Posts: 1712

I just picked up Star Wars Tales #21 last night. You're right, Malo-Ha- they did in fact improve the format. All three stories are excellent.

"Nomad, Chapter One" reminds me of a Western Cool

excellent story. One thing I noticed on the opening page, in the 1st & 3rd pictures, space shot- check out the ships. The story takes place 6 months after PM; they have Republic Acclimator cruisers, a TIE Fighter and a Lambda-class shuttle, and (dare I say) what appears to be a Super Star Destroyer(?) in the forground of the opening pic. I'm not one for navel-picking (unless she's cute) but... those particular models of ships weren't available then (the Acclimators, maybe; the rest not until at least the Clone Wars and afterwards during the Galactic Civil War)

"Walking the Path Thats Given"...I love it. Millavec looks almost exactly like an old friend of mine from my Army days (not the same nature and attitude, mind you, otherwise I wouldn't be friends with him). General Mak looks like he could use some P.T., though; so much for Imperial height & weight standards Razz

The whole 'Dirty Dozen' concept (ok, so there's only going to be eight Rolling Eyes

) is interesting. Earlier this year I had an Imperial campaign written up for my SW RPG group, and I planned to run it in a similar fashion. Ah well Laughing

"Equals and Opposites"- I'm no fan of NJO, but the story was pretty good; I didn't think the Yuuzhan Vong were that big Laughing

Next issue promises to be interesting...oh yes...it will be mine

DonC · Senior Councillor Joined: Mar 30, 2004 Posts: 950

Clone Wars Adventures Vol. 2 is out. I haven't read it yet, but it has the Free Comic Day story with Luminara Unduli and Barriss Offee, a Mace Windu story and an Anakin and Obi-Wan story. The Luminara/Barriss story wasn't that good, but the Mace one looks okay. The Anakin/Obi-Wan story looks REALLY, good, though. I might take my copy over to my niece's today and read it.

Issue #1 of Star Wars: Obsession is out, too. Haven't read that either. Maybe I'll take that with me, too.

Malo-ha · Recruiting Councillor Joined: Mar 27, 2004 Posts: 786

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I just picked up Star Wars Tales #21 last night. You're right, Malo-Ha- they did in fact improve the format. All three stories are excellent.

I'm glad you liked it.

I picked up the Clone Wars Vol. 2 and Obsession #1.

For some reason Republic #71 wasn't out this week which is very unfortunate since events in Obsession happen after #71. This makes for a bit of confusion over some things that are being said and done. You just have to assume some things as you read it. I liked it, wasn't great, but then I'm not sure how I like an obsessed Obi-Wan. I'm used to seeing Anakin in this role. I think I'll need to see more issues before deciding. I also think I will enjoy it more when I've read Republic #71 and know what happened to set this series up.

I didn't have time to read CW Vol. 2 but I did flip thru it quickly. It follows the cartoon format closely. Lots of over the top action.

DonC · Senior Councillor Joined: Mar 30, 2004 Posts: 950

Be warned, Clone Wars Adventures Vol. 2 contains spoilers. For what, I don't know. But there is a line in the story that made me scratch my head for a second. Then I realized it was a spoiler for something.

And, also, it isn't nearly as good as I had hoped. I already mentioned that I didn't like the Luminara/Barriss story. Mace Windu was like an episode of the series. But that was the problem. It was almost exactly like the solo Mace episode. Just him mowing through battle droids like they were standing still.

The Anakin/Obi-Wan story was, I think, meant to pull on the heart strings. It was supposed to be Episode IV Obi-Wan thinking back on how much he cared about Anakin, then a cut to Vader standing over Obi-Wan's robes. The problem was the story lacked any emotional hook. And Anakin was Spider-Man for like 6 pages. I get that it's fiction, but the scene where he jumps from ship to ship has already been done, and, quite frankly, was pushing it when it was Lucas himself who did it.

Beltayn · Jedi Knight Joined: Apr 18, 2004 Posts: 1712

I picked up that Clone Wars Vol. 2 last week, and Obsession yesterday. I have to admit, I'm not a great fan of the 'cartoon' artwork as opposed to the more realistic-looking stuff. The second story wasn't too bad, but the 1st story was waaay too much. The 3rd was alright. I don't see myself adding Clone Wars to my monthly comic purchases in the future (unless the story really catches my interest)

The jury is still out on Obession Cool

I also picked up Star Wars Tales #17 yesterday; 'Planet of the Dead' was interesting, and 'The Apprentice' was amusing. 'Ghosts of Hoth' gave me pause- does anyone know whether or not the base existed before the Alliance got there? The rest of the stories didn't interest me much, and the sloppy crap art in 'Dark Journey' gave me a headache (though the story wasn't too bad if you like that sort of thing).

DonC · Senior Councillor Joined: Mar 30, 2004 Posts: 950

Beltayn wrote:

I don't see myself adding Clone Wars to my monthly comic purchases in the future (unless the story really catches my interest)

Clone Wars Adventures isn't a monthly. I believe they've annouced a third edition, but I don't recall when it's scheduled to ship.

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'Ghosts of Hoth' gave me pause- does anyone know whether or not the base existed before the Alliance got there?

This was the Halloween issue of Tales; I think they might have added that tidbit so they could set the story on Hoth. Star Wars fans know Wampas, had they set it on Yavin 4, for example, they couldn't have used an established creature.

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The rest of the stories didn't interest me much, and the sloppy crap art in 'Dark Journey' gave me a headache (though the story wasn't too bad if you like that sort of thing).

I took this issue out and looked at the art again. Yeah, Ben Templesmith's art is one of those eye-of-the-beholder deals. I'm kind of in the middle; I don't hate it, but I don't really like it, either. I do recall hating that story as a whole, though.

TheRandomMenace · Jedi Knight Joined: Mar 30, 2004 Posts: 1886

I understand the need to take out the enemy during such a destructive conflict as the Clone Wars... however, the excuse of needing a storyline aside, why would Obi-Wan be obsessed with finding Ventress? Isn't that going directly against the Jedi Code? Obi-Wan is not one to do such things.

I think that Obi-Wan meeting Ventress for the first time and Anakin meeting Ventress for the first time could be done right, if they occurred separately (I don't know how it actually plays out in the comics). I mean, look at how many times Lucas has done things within the films while still keeping consistency (i.e. Obi-Wan never meeting C-3PO in either TPM or AOTC)

Krash · Jedi Knight Joined: Mar 20, 2004 Posts: 3495

TheRandomMenace wrote:

why would Obi-Wan be obsessed with finding Ventress? Isn't that going directly against the Jedi Code? Obi-Wan is not one to do such things.

I think a major reason for Obi-Wan's preoccupation with Ventress is that she (as with Dooku) is using her jedi training against those who taught her everything. Add to that the genocidal tactics she used on Naboo, and the way she methodically slaughters any/all jedi who cross her path...and a jedi like Obi-Wan couldn't help but be so determined on bringing her to justice.

It's the same kind of "frankenstein" mentality that The Dark Woman felt towards Aurra Sing. Imagine what Obi-Wan will go through when he learns of Anakin's betrayal.

Speaking of GL's efforts to make sure "the circle is now complete"...Obi-Wan's manhunt for Ventress may be one of those "damned-fool, idealisitc crusade" Obi-Wan refered to Idea

Malo-ha · Recruiting Councillor Joined: Mar 27, 2004 Posts: 786

Clone Wars Vol. 5 is now in stores.

Republic #71 finally came out this week. Having read it I really wish they had made sure it was out with if not before Obsession #1. After reading #71 Obsession is more understandable.

It is a great issue. I loved the way the two storylines are presented side by side with Obi-Wan and the Council debating at what point could Quinlan be considered to have made the choice to turn to the darkside while Anakin is fighting Ventress and deliberately making those choices. That was very well done. We never see Ventress die so it sets up Obsession. I could see Obi-Wan wanting to make sure Ventress was dead after all she's done to him. Then not finding her body, only circumstantial evidence she could be alive.

We really see Ventress push Anakins's buttons. She's so blinded by her desire to hurt Obi-Wan that she's clearly not thinking. If she had actually looked at Anakin with all her sense she'd know how potentially strong he is. Although there is no way she could know he'd overreact the way he did. I think she was so use to Obi-Wan playing by the rules that she wasn't prepared for Anakin to not to.

What did you think when at the end Palpatine says he's going to take the dreadnaughts and convert them into ships to carry Dark Jedi? I have to admit the geek in me was shouting Dark Empire at this point.

As far as the first meeting of Anakin and Ventress, you'd think I'd know enough to go research it before saying anything. Razz

According to the Unofficial Clone Wars Timeline at starwarz.com the first time Anakin and Obi-Wan met Asaaj Ventres was on Ohma-D'un in Republic 51 and 52 during the third month after the Battle of Geonosis. Anakin next encounters her a month later in the Clone Wars Micro-Series cartoons during the Battle of Muunilinst when he pursues her ship to Yavin IV where they fight. The Timeline calls this The Battle of Yavin IV and cites episodes 17, 18 and 19. It would be interesting to know if Anakin knew it was Ventress in the ship when he pursued it or only realized who it was when he saw her on Yavin IV.

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Speaking of GL's efforts to make sure "the circle is now complete"...Obi-Wan's manhunt for Ventress may be one of those "damned-fool, idealisitc crusade" Obi-Wan refered to

About time we get to see a "damned-fool, idealistic crusade." Although Owen could of considered the entire Jedi way of life a "damned-fool, idealistic crusade."

DonC · Senior Councillor Joined: Mar 30, 2004 Posts: 950

I loved the last page of Republic #71. The final part of the space battle seemed a little rushed to me, probably so they could include the origin of Anakin's scar, but I liked the council debating Vos' future.

Oh, man, though. That last page has made me so excited to read what's coming next.